Working Caregivers: The Invisible Employees

Why Every Workplace Should Host a Senior Shower for Caregivers with Jenn Chan

• Selma Archer & Zack Demopoulos • Season 1 • Episode 5

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In this episode, we welcome Jenn Chan, an inspiring caregiver advocate and entrepreneur. Jenn shares her personal journey of becoming a family caregiver for her grandmother at a young age, discussing the struggles and rewards of balancing work with caregiving responsibilities. We dive into the importance of recognizing caregivers in the workplace, the significance of having supportive employers, and Jenn’s exciting new project: the Senior Shower Project, which celebrates caregivers through special events akin to baby showers. Tune in to discover how employers can create a culture that supports working caregivers and why normalizing caregiving conversations is so crucial.

We also challenge our listeners to host the first Senior Shower at their workplace. Will it be you?

 

Episode Highlights:
[3:45] - Jenn shares her story about becoming a caregiver for her grandmother and the importance of caregiver identity.
[7:02] - The pivotal moment when Jenn realized she was a caregiver and how it changed her perspective.
[10:36] - Discussing the importance of supportive employers and how Jenn found flexibility in the workplace while caregiving.
[15:55] - Jenn introduces the Senior Shower Project and explains how it could support caregivers in the workplace.
[22:32] - Jenn’s national advocacy work for caregivers and tips for employers to support caregiving employees.
[27:47] - Challenge to listeners: Who will be the first to host a Senior Shower at their workplace? 

 

Links & Resources:

 

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow the podcast and leave a review. Remember to check out our website at invisibleemployeeadvocates.com for more resources, and subscribe to our newsletter for updates! We’ll catch you in the next episode.

Jenn Chan:

The reason why I quit my job was because I realized I wasn't spending enough time with my grandma. I needed to be there to watch her. I had no plan, so I just quit. But when I told my employee at that time I wanted to quit, they offered me more money, and I felt like I wasn't heard. They just said, Okay, do you want to do you want to raise? How about it should$10,000 I said, No, that's it's not about the money, it's about quality time with my grandma. And then that conversation ended, and I, you know, I moved on, and I quit, and I stayed home. So that really struck a chord with me, because I just really felt like they weren't hearing what my needs were, but I didn't have the tools at that time to really express, you know, what are the other options.

Unknown:

Did you know that in 2020 there were 53 million caregivers in the United States, and by 2025 this number is expected to grow to 62 point 5,000,073% of these caregivers also have a job. They are called Working caregivers, and they are invisible because they don't talk about their caregiving challenges. Working caregivers, the invisible employees is a podcast that will show you how to support working caregivers. Join Selma Archer and Zach Dimopoulos on the working caregivers the invisible employees podcast as they show you how to support working caregivers. Hey,

Zack Demopoulos:

everyone. Hello. I'm Zach. I'm Selma. Welcome to another episode of Working caregivers, the invisible employees. So excited today to have a guest who I have befriended many, many years, and it's such a pleasure to see you today. Hello, Jen Chan,

Jenn Chan:

hello Zach and hi Selma.

Selma Archer:

Hi Jen, welcome.

Zack Demopoulos:

Welcome to the show. We are so honored and pleased that you're here. Summer just kind of ended here, Labor Day weekend coming up. How's your summer been? Thanks for

Jenn Chan:

having me on here, and thanks for asking me about my summer. You know, I'm based in San Francisco, Bay Area so that the summer has been pretty hot out here. It's been great. I've been having family vacations. Get this? I did two national parks this summer with my family, and it's, let's just say it's fun and it's a lot more work than you imagine, but when you see the photos at the end, it's completely worth it. So we had fun visiting Yosemite National Park here, and then we also took a flight up north to Mount Rainier National Park. So just being able to get out, be in nature, be in the woods, smell the fresh air, and see, see the sights that was the summer, and just happy memories, and it was fun. I love it. You're the family with the cart with overflowing luggage, but we used everything. So that's the fun part. You think you're gonna use everything. We used everything.

Zack Demopoulos:

You're way too young for this, but I'm visualizing family circle cartoon. You just drew that picture for me with the filled car. And you're and, you know, you're pointing to Yosemite Park, and the kids are like, where's ice cream, or where, you know, I love it. I love that. Well, glad you had a great summer. Let's jump into all the great work that you're doing, and thank you for all your caregiver advocacy. That's how you and I met, and all the things that you're great, stuff that you're doing for both care recipients and caregivers. Titles that I picked up off LinkedIn are really amazing. You're a certified caregiving consultant. You're a caregiver coach. I love party starters. We'll have to talk a little bit about that. And a certified senior advisor. So tell me what got you into all this. Why do you do all this? You seem a little too young to do that. If you don't mind me saying I got

Jenn Chan:

into this because I I mean, honestly, it was just because I was a family caregiver for my grandma. I mean, I got into all these certifications. I felt like, after taking care of my grandma, I wanted to continue caregiving. I know it sounds a little crazy that after caregiving for your family family, which I did for 10 years, that I wanted to pursue that 10 years of my life. I mean, I started caregiving when I was in my mid 20s, right? So you're talking about being a young adult, 25 to 35 those are prime time years for creating your career or moving forward, let's say your education. But I took a lot of that time to caregiv for my grandma, so I decided, hey, you know, afterwards 10 years is a lot of experience. You can chop that up in your resume for all let's just say all the project management, all the communication with family, all the coordination with all the healthcare individuals and care team involved. I decided to pursue a career, but I didn't go to school for caregiving. Let's just call it that. Currently, I did not go to school. So I said, What? What can I do to continue in this space? And I realized that I wanted to continue supporting other caregivers that were in my shoes, to focus on coaching caregivers, then also realizing that there's a. Whole, whole segment, a whole segment of senior care services that maybe I didn't even tap into when I was taking care of my grandma at home. There's a whole bunch of other senior services. So I wanted to educate myself and tap into the network with other senior care providers, such as those that were, say, home care companies offering home care services, which I didn't use, but I want to learn about it, and I wanted to be a point of contact and be an expert for potentially, my peers within my community. And I can tell you that during these during those times, none of my peers were caregiving, but I can tell you now you know I'm going to fast track 1520, years later, I have family and friends calling me, asking about caregiving, asking for what are the next steps? What should we do? Who should we contact? And I just feel, I feel so blessed that I move forward in this direction and to educate myself and the services available, and then be able to direct to my family and fairs in the right direction, at least a starting point. So I can tell you that for me, being part of being a caregiver and then having access community resources, I wanted to also give back to the community, where I can work with caregivers, and I can also work for other agencies that offer services to caregivers.

Zack Demopoulos:

Bless you. Like I said, we're really honored to have you. You don't find too many people who can have that type of passion and energy and be able to do the things that you did when you were younger. And your grandmother, I'm sure, was very, very appreciative. I do recall a picture of you pushing your grandmother on a beach in a incredible, weird looking contraption where it's got big wheels so you can get on the sand, right? Yeah, so you did have some access to some resources at that point. But how did you go about, seriously, at that age and and let's face it, it just wasn't that common or popular. May I add online to talk about young caregivers and access resources? I'm just curious. Where did you go get your stuff, your help, your support. At that time,

Jenn Chan:

I felt, I felt like now the caregiving conversation is huge. Back then, it just wasn't as huge. And I'm gonna tell you with all honestly, I didn't really start looking for resources until halfway through my journey. I can't recall a specific time. Maybe it was year four or five. And I mentioned these because it's important, because it's about identity. I did not self identify as a caregiver until somewhere in the middle of the journey, I really, truly thought I was just taking care of my grandma. You know, I'm just a granddaughter taking care of my grandma. I'm doing all the things. But soon it kind of all the all the things. She had diabetes, and then she ended up needing to be in a wheelchair. So not only was I giving her insulin injections and managing her medication is taking into a doctor's appointment, I was helping her transfer toileting, it became kind of a full time job. That's when I realized. I said, Wait, this is an actual role. And I just realized, I said, this, this is something that this, I need to look, I need to search. And then I think I was Googling, you know, doing some internet searches, and then I came across the word caregiver. And that's when I said, Wait, what is, what are the responsibilities of the caregiver? And I said, Oh, I do this. You know, I do all of these things. Oh, wait, so that's me. Okay, there's a name for it. Great. So now what when I was able to find that identity that, let's call it the keyword, then I was able to search the internets of the world and all the resources, all the groups, all the conferences, all the workshops, all the books that were available. And it completely opened my world, knowing that I was not alone in this journey, but there's so many resources I can tap into. And that's when I just started finding out, like, what can I do? You know, speaking of that wheelchair with grandma, like, how can I, as a caregiver, take my grandparent in a wheelchair, still enjoy nature, and then going back to the national parks, you know, San Francisco, the Golden Gate Park, they offered free wheelchairs. You just drop off your ID, and they give you this wheelchair that with big wheels, where you can go, and then you come back and then get your ID back, simple little things like that because of a keyword search. I mean, I can't emphasize the importance of that identity piece. So for me, it was with understanding the responsibilities that kind of snowballed into a list of a full time role, then realizing, Oh, I am a caregiver. So now what do I do? Yeah, and I also want to let you know, when I was taking my grandma to the doctor's appointments, I don't recall them telling me in the beginning that I was her caregiver. They just said, Who are you? Oh, yeah, the you're the granddaughter. Okay, great. That was just that, that once I became a caregiver. Then I recall I was this. I was looking for all the caregiver brochures in the waiting room asking for all the caregiver programs that were available. So I wanted to let you know that if I didn't pick up on that identity piece, I think it may have taken me a little bit longer to figure out who I was. Yeah,

Unknown:

great point.

Selma Archer:

So Jen, you mentioned earlier that you have. People now calling you and asking you about, you know, care question what they should do and what's the next step. And you're that's so gracious of you to be available to them to do that. And in fact, you were so gracious to Zach and I by writing comments in our book, chapter three of our book, you shared your story with us about becoming a caregiver for your grandmother at such a young age, you also said that you ended up quitting your job, and you commented that it's very important to work for an employer that supports caregiving. I just wonder if you could talk a little bit about that, why you feel that's so important? Yes,

Jenn Chan:

and thank you. Thank you for just including my story in your book, which I find is absolutely compelling, on the care culture of the working caregivers. And I mentioned the importance of the flexibility employers and for them to acknowledge caregiving. Because I actually started talking to employers and leading with that story, and it allowed me to figure out if I wanted to work for the company. The reason why I quit my job was because I realized I wasn't spending enough time with my grandma. I needed to be there to watch her. I had no plan, so I just quit. But when I told my employee at that time I wanted to quit, they offered me more money, and I felt like I wasn't heard. They just said, Okay, do you want to do you want to raise? How about extra $10,000 I said, No, that's it's not about the money. It's about quality time with my grandma. And then that conversation ended, and I, you know, I moved on, and I quit, and I stayed home. So that really struck a chord with me, because I just really felt like they weren't hearing what my needs were. But I didn't have the tools at that time to really express, you know, what are the other options? And so when I finally got back into the workforce, I was actually interviewing for part time jobs, and when they asked about my availability, I said, it's really important for you to know that I'm on call 24/7 that I take care of my grandma. At any point I need to just leave to take care of her. That's just what I that's what I need to do. That's my priority. Some companies that I interview would say, well, that's not going to work. I said, well, then this is your culture doesn't work with me, and it's okay. I'm interviewing for you too, so I'm just going to move to another company that supports that. Eventually, I found a company that was able to support my caregiver responsibilities and also offer me flexibility at work, I was working for a beverage brand, working in the grocery business, and I got to determine my own hours, as long as I did the job, that's all that really mattered. And then I was able to complete my reports. I was also able to drive around, so if I had to take off, I was able to drive back home. So I found a job that supported my caregiving responsibilities, gave me the flexibility to complete my job, as you know, at a flexible work time that worked for me. I feel very fortunate that I did that, and because I had that, I've been an advocate for other folks when they ask about, you know, how do I balance finding a new job, or how to balance caregiving. I say, you know, lead with caregiving, because you really can't hide it. It's only going to get more difficult. You're going to be doing more and more. So lead with it. Talk about it. This is your life, you know, if you're spending if you're going to work for a company 40 hours full time, you know you got to let them know that you also have a life too. So you got to be able to balance that. It's a moment for negotiation, but also, at the same time, ask for yourself, do you want to work for a company that cannot support your lifestyle? Right? The conversation really goes both ways. I got really fortunate. I was really lucky to be able to work for a beverage company that offered that flexibility. I understand Not all jobs do that. If you care about yourself, your lifestyle, you're committing a lot of time to this company. So they should be able to commit a little bit of something to you too, to support you as their employee, to show you that, hey, if you need to take time for caregiving, do so and we support you. And you have that safety net. You have that security for coming back, knowing that we support what you're doing

Selma Archer:

that's awesome. Yes, wow, definitely. Yeah.

Jenn Chan:

So lead with it. I say, whoever's listening right now, just lead, lead with that. And if you're offering it to your employees, let them know that. You know, let's talk about caregiving, yes, or maybe it's a conversation of when we're getting to know each other on the interview process, say, you know, are there people that you are responsible for, people or pets? Let's call it that pets are family. I think,

Zack Demopoulos:

I think our working caregivers right now, who are listening in, are leaning forward and picking up some great tips about looking for flexibility, like, like, Who would think? You know, driving is a flexibility lead with your caregiving story, which most caregivers I've spoken to are afraid to do that are afraid of their gaps. Yeah, and it's not necessarily about money, which is just amazing. Both Selma and I, being in HR for many years, know that our leaders will always go to a single could we just. Throw some more money at them. Why don't we just find out first of all, why they're leaving? Don't always assume it's because it's the money. I just love that. So our working caregivers are leaning in. I hope the HR folks and the leaders that are listening to right now are also lean in. And if you haven't leaned in, I hope you're leaning in now, because I'm gonna ask our friend here about her entrepreneurial spirit. If there's an HR leader out there or benefits director that you want to make an A for yourself, you want to listen to this part. You have a very unique offering in your business, and it's called the senior shower project. That's what you were doing when I met you, and it's very unique. I've never heard of anything like this. So please, Jen, tell us about this concept, why you came up with it, and how can this be used in the workspace today.

Jenn Chan:

Thanks for asking me, Zach and I remember when we met and I shared, shared the concept with you. I am in the middle of this process here, so just with all honesty, I am, I am launching this as we speak. So with the senior shower project. It's a project because it's something that's really passionate to me, and I want you to it's all about celebrating family caregivers with a party, with a new party that I'm calling senior shower, much like a baby shower is for entry to parenthood or motherhood or fatherhood. Think about a senior shower as a party for caregiver hood, specifically caregiving, for older adults or seniors within your family or community. And the reason why I'm really excited about the senior shower project is because that it is a celebration of a life milestone of becoming a family caregiver. And how does that tie into the workplace? Sometimes in the workplace, we kind of don't know we become going to bring it back to the identity piece. We don't know where care a caregiver until it really snowballs. We're doing many multiple responsibilities, and once we become a caregiver, it's your identity kind of blurs. You know you're not only are your daughter or a son or or a niece, now you just take on this other caregiver role. On top of that, you're still working, so you still have the employee role. So now imagine if at the senior shower, like I said, it's a very similar to a baby shower. Imagine if at this party, your family and friends say your colleagues got together to celebrate that you're about to take on this caregiving role. They all come together and share their stories of caregiving. They all come together and share their advice, or perhaps even share their tips of what you need to do, who you need to call a start like, like, kind of like a setting up a new caregiver for success, like a starter list here, if you're going to jump into this caregiving role for whoever you're taking care of, we're here to support you. Here's a party. Here's all the people that are going to know that this is now your new identity, and you're not going to be alone through the process. You know, think about the party as just like a starting point, right? Like I said, entry to caregiver hood. Now, imagine if a senior shower were to happen at the workplace. Say, Hey, you're about to take off. Say you're actually accessing your employee benefits. You're actually accessing the paid time off for several weeks. And all your managers, your colleagues, get together and, you know, maybe invite some family and friends too. They threw you a party. You get that email, you get that text, you get that slack note saying, hey, come to the break room. The senior shower is happening for Zach at 1pm Come on now. Let's everybody come together. This party

Zack Demopoulos:

started

Jenn Chan:

at the same time as Zach can know that if, if he were to take those, you know, those several weeks off, that all those people in that break room knows what's happening, he doesn't need to, let's just say, Zach does not need to continue to repeat the caregiving story over and over again, because sometimes, honestly, caregiving can be very intimate and it can be very intense, and it's a very vulnerable thing to keep opening opening that story, right? But if everybody was there knows the story, knows what you're about to do, then Zach doesn't need to repeat himself, and knows that at the journey, if he needs support, he can call tags, whoever that was there, because they knew that this was a journey that he was gonna go on and it's an easier ask. Many caregivers feel alone on their journey. Feel really isolated, but if you can have this party, then you can call anybody that's there that says they're willing to take a phone call. And it's an easier ask, or maybe it's the other way. Hey, can you check in on me in a couple weeks? Just Just make sure I'm okay? There's so many benefits of celebrating the identity, and then to be able to feel like you're still emotionally, socially, mentally connected with some other folks, and they can actually check in on your well being. Because think about it. If you haven't heard from a colleague, not even as a colleague, family or friend in a while, you're going to ask, Hey, how is Zach? Do. Or how is Selma doing? You know, isn't he caregiving? Let's check in on that. And just that acknowledgement of that caregiving piece can do wonders for a caregiver that's been doing just all the responsibilities, day in and day out, knowing that other people are thinking about them, and I'm going to tell you, caregiving, not everybody signs up for it. Nobody really knows how to do it, unless you decide to go to the healthcare profession. It's it's difficult, it's hard, it's frustrating, and it's good to know that some folks are on your side and that they are thinking about you. Wow. Small segment of what I think the senior shower could do in the workplace setting. Obviously, outside of that, there can be so much more with family to family celebrations and traditions. I can go on and on. Zach, you know, focus on we're focused on the workplace. And it's really important to me, and I want you to know that, you know, when I think about why I quit and the company that I work for, they perhaps they did not have that care culture in place. Perhaps they did not know the demands of caregiving, the juggling, the work life balance of caregiving and also working. There's a lot of difficult decisions to make. I just think if this can move the needle just a little bit to identify caregivers and to give them kind of, as you said in your book, you know, a caregiver handout for managers or best practices. Think about if you just gave your employee and say, Hey, you're about to go. Here's a little booklet. Here's a starter kit for you. And then please access all these phone numbers and resources that are available to you with our benefits program. And if you have any questions, call us and we can help you.

Zack Demopoulos:

Love it, love it. Love it, love it. You're This is why Selma and I were so honored to have you on board, not just for your advocacy work, but for what you're doing here on your entrepreneurial side. And we get asked all the time, Hey, what is one way we can create a care culture in our organization? Well, take note, there's one easy way to do it, just what Jen just talked about. The

Selma Archer:

amazing thing about that too, Jen, in addition to what some of the benefits that you just mentioned, it takes the secrecy out of caregiving. People no longer have to hide the fact that they're a caregiver, trying to work their job and handle their responsibilities at work and handle their responsibilities at home, and the company is embracing them as part of the, you know, the culture, the functioning business, that it's okay. We're going to support you. We know you're a caregiver and we're here for you. So I think that's amazing. That is, we're behind you. We're definitely behind you. I

Jenn Chan:

appreciate the support on that, and I support you too, because I don't think caregiving needs to be a secrecy. I think we all care, give for somebody or something, yes. So I think normalizing the conversation and normalizing the world, I think it's going to be huge as more and more folks are going to be become caregivers absolutely in the near future. Well

Selma Archer:

before we let you go, I have another question, and that's about you. Actually, I'm just so impressed and overwhelmed by the many advocacy roles that you've you've undertaken, and which how much you've contributed to the care economy in this country, and what among them is your experience working for Caring Across Generations, where you worked on the national level to help make care in this country more accessible, more affordable, more equitable for everyone. So if you were talking to someone in our audience right now, a business leader or employer in our audience, what would you say is one thing, maybe one or two things that they could do right now, right away, to help move care in this country, you know, in the right direction.

Jenn Chan:

One of the things that I think employers can do right now is to really educate their employees on what benefits are available to them currently in their workplace. That's the one step, because some employees may not even know they have access to these benefits, letting them know that they are able to take time off. So education on that aspect. Another aspect is also to let them know that I'd have to say this, their vote matters. It's really important. When I worked with Caring Across generation on a national level, it was a lot of campaigning. It was about certain policies that were in place that actually affected community, community based organizations that offered caregiver resources. And I'll mention that because it's important to know, once you become a caregiver, that you're going to be accessing all the community services that are available to you. So if there are policies that are affecting the funding of these programs, I think that's something that we should be made aware of so in for something that would be actionable, companies can take a to do the survey, do a status check or assessment of how many caregivers are within the organizations, and then publicizing and informing them about certain policies that are in place that they should be aware of that could affect them. Understand. And in the policies what really allow everyday, working caregivers and the employees to know that their voice matters and vote for what's going to affect you, not only on your bottom line, but what's going to affect your personal, home life.

Selma Archer:

Often, when we we find ourselves in that care position, we immediately, as you did, start the internet research, instead of starting right at work and seeing what they can provide us. What's you know, what insights, what resources they can lead us to. So that's a good point.

Zack Demopoulos:

And I encourage organizations, employers, who are listening in I encourage you to walk the talk. You know, you're always supporting good causes. Perhaps if you could, Jen, just list the two major nonprofit organizations you work with. Once you list them and we'll put them in our show notes. Maybe employers out there, this is a good direction to go in and do some support and show your employees, show your consumers, you really are walking the talk. So, number

Jenn Chan:

one, Caring Across Generations. They do wonderful work, supporting and also advocating for care workers. And the second thing is, I, you know, I live in California, so I advocate for local, regional Caregiver Resource Centers. So for me, I definitely, I work for a Family Caregiver Alliance. They provide a lot of resources for caregivers within the state, but I would say for the companies and employers that are listening in right now, work with their HR department and also find, find out, what are the local resource Caregiver Resource Centers that are available because they have you may not have the information, but guess what they do so if You know their phone number, you know their contact person, anytime an employee says, Hey, I'm in a caregiving situation, then you have your go to, you know, at least you have one point of contact and say, I know who you can talk to. And actually, I have 1/3 thing. Can I, you know, I was reading through a book I love, how you identify the employee assistance programs, you know, update that listing, or find out how to update that listing for available resources. I think I don't know how often those are updated, but you know, if you can get something new and fresh out there for your current employees, I think that would be good, because I'm going to tell you the last thing a caregiver wants is, if you give them a list and they call it and nobody picks up, that's just a waste of their time. Yeah, I've been going to say exact time. How many times have you? You know, there's a big list of things to call, people to call, but if you call that, business no longer exists, or it just doesn't go anywhere, you just wasted what 10 minutes of your time when you could be doing something else? I learned that third one, just for fun.

Zack Demopoulos:

Thank you. Thank you so much. And I do want to reiterate one thing, though, because national companies have employees in California, and I and Selma have both been very appreciative of what Family Caregiver Alliance does online. It's it applies to anyone, not just California. The resources, their articles, absolutely incredible. I encourage everyone to check those out. We'll put those in our show notes. I tell you what. Selma, I think we're going to do the very first challenge to our listeners since we started our show. You ready? Selma, I'm ready. Let's go to challenge one of our listeners out there today, or whoever picks this up, to go out and do, be the first to do a senior shower in your organization, and then to get back to us and tell us about it, and we will publicize the heck out of it. You will stand out if you do it. I promise you all it's going to cost you is paper cups, beverage, maybe a cake and conversations with Jen Chan, I'm challenging him. Salmo, what do you think I love it? I love it. All right. All right. Awesome. So Jen, on that note, how can people reach out to you so they can get a senior project done in their organization? I

Jenn Chan:

love this challenge. I welcome all the conversations and to guide, guide any folks who want to launch this with me. You can contact me at through my website, senior shower project.com also email Jen at senior shower project.com I cannot wait to get this party started with all of you and for all the future and current working caregivers out there. I know there's millions and millions out there, and I'm pretty sure if I had to bet my money on it, they'd appreciate this, the celebration of their identity and their role, and would appreciate the support from everyone around them.

Zack Demopoulos:

We cannot thank you enough for your time and for being on here, Jen, and for all your advocacy and work that you do for young for lgbqt members, of our community, for everyone that you represent and work for, we can't. Thank you enough. We really can't. I mean, I don't know if our producer will allow this, and we have to pay royalty fees, but we should be playing. Let's get this party started right now. To close out, let's get Thank you. Thank you, Jen, thank you. We. In. Thank

Selma Archer:

you for your tireless advocacy for caring.

Unknown:

Thank you for tuning in. Be sure to catch new episodes of working caregivers, the invisible employees podcast every other Tuesday. Please also visit our website, invisible employee advocates.com to subscribe to our newsletter, purchase our book and learn more about how we can help you strengthen your workplace to become more supportive of working caregivers you