Working Caregivers: The Invisible Employees

Exclusive Podcast Interview With Angela F. Williams: A Conversation on Caregiving

• Selma Archer & Zack Demopoulos • Season 1 • Episode 42

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What happens when one of the world's top nonprofit CEOs makes the life-changing decision to step away from executive leadership to become a full-time family caregiver? In this episode, we sit down with Ms. Angela F. Williams to explore the deeply personal journey that reshaped her life, her leadership, and her perspective on what truly matters.

Together, we unpack the realities of balancing work and caregiving, why so many caregivers remain invisible in the workplace, and how leaders can build cultures where employees feel safe asking for support. Whether you're a caregiver, an employer, or someone who wants to better understand the challenges millions of working caregivers face, this conversation is filled with practical insights, heartfelt wisdom, and actionable ideas you can apply right away.

Episode Highlights
[1:27] - Ms. Williams shares the gradual journey that led her from CEO to full-time caregiver for her parents.

[5:28] - Why caregiving is anything but linear—and the leadership lessons it teaches along the way.

[10:54] - Ms. Williams explains why she wasn't "retiring," but "refiring," and what this next chapter of life looks like.

[17:15] - The overwhelming response after sharing her caregiving story and why caregivers need safe spaces to speak up.

[23:58] - Every caregiving journey is different: balancing work, family, and the unexpected responsibilities that come with both.

[25:32] - How vulnerable leadership can transform workplace culture and encourage employees to ask for the support they need.

[29:45] - Practical caregiving resources every HR leader, manager, and employer should know about.

[35:51] - Why supporting working caregivers isn't just the right thing to do—it's also a smart business decision.

[42:09] - Ms. Williams shares the one policy, benefit, and community resource she believes every caregiver should have access to.

[44:23] - A powerful closing conversation on leading with compassion and creating workplaces where caregivers can truly thrive.

Links & Resources

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow the podcast and leave a review. Remember to check out our website at invisibleemployeeadvocates.com for more resources, and subscribe to our newsletter for updates! We’ll catch you in the next episode.



Angela Williams:

Be there for your employees because you never know what the undercurrent is that's going on in their lives, and create the space and the culture that allows individuals to share either one-on-one or collectively as a group to provide support to each other.

Unknown:

Did you know that in 2020 there were 53 million caregivers in the United States, and by 2025 this number is expected to grow to 62.5 million? 73% of these caregivers also have a job. They are called working caregivers, and they are invisible because they don't talk about their caregiving challenges, Working Caregivers, the Invisible Employees, is a podcast that will show you how to support working caregivers. Join Selma Archer and Zach Demopoulos on the Working Caregivers, the Invisible Employees podcast as they show you how to support working caregivers.

Zack Demopoulos:

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, from whenever and wherever you are dialing in. I'm Zach Demopoulos.

Selma Archer:

I'm Selma Archer,

Zack Demopoulos:

and this is Working Caregivers, the Invisible Employee Podcast.

Selma Archer:

Welcome, everyone, and we have a wonderful guest with us today, Miss Angela Williams. So, welcome, Angela.

Angela Williams:

Thank you, Selma and Zach.

Zack Demopoulos:

Welcome, Miss Williams. Welcome.

Selma Archer:

Yes. So we'll just get started. Let me just go forward with with with the first question. We hear many executives talk about family being their top priority, but very few actually make the decision to step down from their global leadership role as a CEO and and to actually become a caregiver. As you think about that decision, when was the moment that you realized that that was a decision that was a very fundamental challenge? Actually, it was something that was required a fundamental change in your life,

Angela Williams:

Selma. I tell you, it wasn't really this one dramatic moment. It was a slow and steady buildup. My parents moved to the Washington D.C. area when I moved from Chicago to the D.C. area, and my brother and sister also live in this area. And so, when I took my new job as the president and CEO of United Way Worldwide, we thought it would be great to have our parents with us so that we could be with them and close by in case anything happened. They're seniors, but progressively things kept happening, and and you know things like a fall will happen, or rush you to the hospital, or an emergency, and you discover health issues, and they kept increasing as the years went on. I found myself over the years taking Zoom calls, taking conference calls, engaging in conversations and staff meetings from hospital bedsides, and thinking that I could continue to keep moving at this rapid pace, this intense pace, while still managing the care and support for my parents, and again, as I said, it was just a slow and steady buildup where it really became a lot. Especially when my dad died in June of 2025, which left my mom and her care, and also the health issues that include memory loss and and all the things that go alongside that. And so, trying to manage a calendar for caregiving with a calendar for global work and travel just really became untenable, and I could see where, as my husband said, Angela, you don't want to live a life of regrets, and he just kept saying that to me, and he said, you know, you have never ever really experienced loss. This is your first loss with your dad passing, and you now just have your mom, and so you really need to figure out what the balance is for life. And we all get caught up in this notion of work-life balance, which is really nothing more than a A notion, it's a myth, and it's something that we all need to unpack for ourselves.

Selma Archer:

Yes.

Zack Demopoulos:

Recently, I heard the best term for it instead. It's called work-life integration.

Unknown:

Yeah.

Zack Demopoulos:

Versus work-life balance, right?

Angela Williams:

Yes. And in fact, that integration is not. 50-50. The integration ebbs and flows, depending on what's happening in the moment. Yeah,

Selma Archer:

it's like pivoting. Yeah, pivot with the changes. So, you've said before that you are an apprentice in terms of caregiving. You're still learning. What do you think you've learned so far in your caregiving experience that you didn't know when you were leading a global organization?

Angela Williams:

Well, let me let me do the two columns. All right, so you you you can appreciate this because you're we're both lawyers, right? And so you know how the the legal mind thinks is as the issue. You have the facts, and then you start working all the angles and doing the analysis. So it's sort of like this this legal framework and formula for how we act lawyers. Well, I'm going to tell you, being a caregiver is not linear. It's not like being a lawyer. I will say, you know what the issues are, or you think you do, and they are the the thing is that they're multi layered, and caregiving is very complex because the person that you're supporting is a complex person, usually with complex multiple issues going on. And then on top of that, you know, as a as a CEO and as a manager or a leader in an organization, you think about strategy. You think about your goals. You think about well, first of all, your vision, and the vision for all of our lives is to lead a life that's healthy and thriving and joyful. And then you have your strategy about how do you go about doing that. Of course, we do that in organizations, and you can do that in life. I want to make enough money to live in a comfortable house and shelter and food and all the essentials and enjoy vacations, enjoy family, have joy, right? And then there are the tactics of how do you go about getting done? What are the levers you pull? What are the resources that you have to then garner to support the strategy and the vision. Well, in caregiving, it's all of that. Like I don't know, 100 times fold. You both have been caregivers, and you both understand what I'm talking about, because things are constantly changing. Either the individual you're caring for is changing, the the healthcare landscape is changing, the resource landscape in terms of how do you get resources and support is constantly changing, or it's it's just awful to navigate, and and so there's just so much to learn, and most importantly, you you're learning about yourself, what your capacity is, while also learning about the other person and interpreting what they are feeling and sensing and caring for not only your own emotions but their emotions too. So all of that to say, yes, I know how to be a lawyer. I know how to be a CEO. I know how to manage things. I know all about transformation organizationally. I know about running global organizations. But do I know about running my life alongside one other individual or two or three? I am an apprentice.

Selma Archer:

Yes,

Zack Demopoulos:

I love. I

Angela Williams:

don't want to be fired because I can't be fired.

Zack Demopoulos:

I don't think anybody would want to fire that role. Nobody wants to step in it, so they're probably very happy that you're you are being an apprentice. Wow,

Selma Archer:

it's like people say about having children that you learn so much more about yourself when you have children, and caregiving I think does the same thing. You learn so much about who you are when you become a caregiver. You have the courage to publicly say, "I'm stepping away from this role, this senior leadership role to take care of my mom. I need to take care of my mother. Do you think making that decision, you know, because so many leaders feel they have to be certain at all times, they have to be strong at all times, they can't show any sign of of weakness or vulnerability. Do you think that having to make that decision made you more vulnerable, or made you more authentic as a leader.

Angela Williams:

It was both. Both. It was vulnerable to let people in to know what was going on in my life, but yet I would say authentic in the sense that okay, I just have to just lay it out on the table and let people know what I've been experiencing. I will tell you, there were times where I would be holding a a public meeting and on stage in front of people, having just left the hospital to shower, change, and then get to the venue, and it was like this pressure cooker inside of me. And I remember one time I got on stage and I was getting ready to to present, and and then it was just like I started tearing up, and then I was like, I'm so sorry, people. I really do have something to say, but I'm just so sad right now because this is what's happening, and you know it's. Like okay, I can't believe I just did this publicly, but you know what? That's where grief and emotion it comes in waves and and and so and so unexpected that you could feel like I have just embarrassed myself, and people can relate, and they're like, "It's okay, Angela. You don't have to keep going. Like no, because I really want to share with you what I got to share. I really do, but let me just smile a face and really, I listen to me. But it's just one of those things where people say, especially when they know you and when you, yeah. I mean, just that when you're known in a sector and have a lot of relationships and have been around for a while, people feel connected. And I just felt like I want to say to everyone, I'm still

Selma Archer:

here. I talk

Angela Williams:

about I'm retiring, but in actuality, I'm refiring. In that, I still feel like I have a lot to give and support to the world and to other people, but in the meantime, I need to hit a reset slash pause button to understand as an apprentice what does it mean to care for my mom and also deal with myself in my grief and the sense of loss, and to free up mental space to be able to do that has been extremely rewarding. But as people have followed me, even though I've stepped back, they can see I'm still engaged in other ways in life and being an advocate in the things that I care for, but I'm not on planes, trains, and automobiles three to four days a week every week.

Selma Archer:

Awesome! Thank you so much, and it's so nice to see leaders be human. I mean, we all have our vulnerable moments, and it's it's to me it makes makes them a stronger leader. So thank you for sharing that.

Angela Williams:

Well, you know what, Salma, one other thing I would say is that, and and again, a lot of us as leaders know how to compartmentalize very well. We have our personal lives in one box. We have our professional lives in another box, and we have our spiritual lives in another box, and even our physical health in a box. And never shall the four boxes meet, intersect, or overlap. We just try to keep them neat. And and guess what? Life does not work that way. And I I really feel like when we transitioned into this new era in 2020 with COVID that caused so much upheaval in our professional personal lives and everything that affected people around the world, all of us individually and collectively, that we are now in this new space of really thinking about what does it mean to navigate in the age of chaos. My book,

Zack Demopoulos:

yeah, I love that. I love that. I mean, it's a different view on leadership at the end of the day, if you think about it. And we're starting to see a trend. And you certainly really help by stepping out and and and and sharing how you have gone from CEO to caregiver, which is the title of the article from NARP, which we'll put a link in our show notes, so everybody could look at that article. We encourage you to read it, written by Paul, when who's who's a friend of the podcast and has been a guest. It does take a new kind of leadership because these boxes that you talked about. I love the way you did that, Ms. Williams, because we do try to put everything in boxes, but it gets messy, and we don't want to bring our private boxes to the to work, and and we don't want to bring our work boxes to to home. But it happens. In this article I just mentioned, you actually shared how you broke down in a lobby before you were about to meet with somebody because you just got news about how your father passed away. Which yeah, again, we're very sorry for your loss, may his memory be eternal, and also thank you and him for his service to the to our country. But it is hard. But the more we hear these stories, the the better we understand that we can be like that. So you're role modeling something really important. Also, recently I just went to a this society human resource management conference, and they had a couple of sessions on caregiving. And one employer on stage actually said,"We no longer can say caregivers personal; it's business. I like the way you also put it in the article. You said that caregiving is not separate from leadership; it is leadership. So, on that note, what do you wish every CEO like yourself out there can understand more about this hidden caregiving responsibilities we all carry in the workforce, but many of us are invisible?

Angela Williams:

That's a really good question. I think the first reality for all of us to acknowledge is that when people show up to work, they don't leave their problems, issues, concerns at home. In other words, when we show up to work, we show up with our whole selves, and we have to acknowledge that, and as CEOs and leaders, we have to make room for having compassionate conversations, allowing our colleagues to feel at ease to say, "This is what I'm experiencing. I may need some time to do X, Y, and Z, but I want to be forthcoming with you about what's happening, without fear that there are going to be repercussions. Now, granted, a business is in business, and so there has to also be a win-win for the organization as well, but to allow employees and colleagues to be able to have the compassionate conversation to let folks know this is what's going on in my life. Thank you for your prayers. Thank you for your support. Thank you for referrals. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience, if you've gone through something similar with me, so those are the kinds of things that I think employees have to think about. Because again, your business will suffer if your employees suffer, are suffering. Yeah,

Zack Demopoulos:

yeah. It's tough. It's tough for a leader, as someone said earlier, you know it's you know leaders try to have this facade, not facade, but you know this front where you know things are all good. But you're right. So as as leaders tell more stories or share more, then people will share more. I understand you really experienced that when you shared what the reasons why you went from CEO to caregiver. You received quite a bit of communication to you. What, if I could ask you about all that communication, what did you find the most surprising about what people were sharing with you?

Angela Williams:

It was interesting. I I don't know. It was hundreds of of comments that I received back, and I was actually surprised because you know again in the workforce people don't talk about what they're experiencing. I learned about other people that are actually going through care their own caregiving journey. Some felt like they were liberated when I if well if Angela can share her story, then I feel like I should be able to share my story. A lot of them said thank you for for for sharing, and let me tell you what I'm experiencing. And there is a hidden, silent population called caregivers that we need to talk about more boldly. Make available the platforms for people that need support that they can take advantage of. For example, for example, I'm a member of the AARP caregiving Facebook group, and there's just so many others, but it just really-I was just so surprised. People were recounting how you know years ago they had been a caregiver and working full-time jobs, and how hard it was, and what a struggle it was. And of course, they've moved on if they once they they have lost their loved one. But but people are currently in this position, or they recount what happened to them in the past. So, I was just glad to be able to to engage in conversation with people to, as you all are doing with this podcast, creating a platform and a venue to surface what people are experiencing and what their lived experiences and journeys are like.

Zack Demopoulos:

Oh, we appreciate Devin Williams because at the end of the day, look, leaders are humans, right? CEOs are humans, but at times we tend to break away from that because of the bottom lines, right? And so maybe you know, could you share just something that CEOs could be thinking about to help kind of humanize caregiving and not looking at as a bottom line item, don't look at it as a program or as a benefit. What's one way to look at this where we can kind of humanize? I don't like using the word normalize, but humanize. I like that. Can we humanize this? What's something maybe we could help a CEO who might be never experienced this before?

Angela Williams:

First thing I would say for all of us: one in four people live with disabilities in the United States. At some point in time, each of us will encounter a situation where we will be engaged in caregiving, either as the recipient of caregiver. Giving or supporting others, and because of that and that reality, I believe that CEOs should be able to and willing to create atmospheres and cultures where staff can talk about it. For example, when I was the CEO of United Way Worldwide, there was a resource management group that the employees wanted to put together themselves of caregivers. It wasn't a top-down approach. It was employees saying, "We want to do this, and and that's great. And making room for that is one thing a leader can do. Secondly, a leader can be open and forthright about what they're experiencing. And then the third thing, as I said, is again being able to have those compassionate conversations and creating space and supporting HR, supporting employee resource management groups, and other ways of just allowing people to to be all of who they are, and not have to hide or bury all of what they're going through when they show up in the office. And the last thing I would say, as I think about what I'm now the apprentice at doing, which is trying to identify resources and support, is to have those resources and supports and tools available for your employees. Oh my gosh! Imagine being able as an employee to go into HR and say, "Hey, I'm struggling. I need support with my family member who's a veteran, or a child, or someone with disability that I'm working through, and be able to help them and point them to resources that is so invaluable. And I will tell you that takes a lot of time and energy to just navigate.

Zack Demopoulos:

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Thank you. I've I've seen as as much as 14 hours you could spend if you have an initial caregiving journey that you're on and you don't know anything about, you could spend 14 hours. Where are you going to put those 14 hours in, right? You're you're working, you're you're caring for somebody, and and then you maybe have children or maybe you have other responsibilities, and yeah. But thank you. Those are all great tips, CEOs. I hope you were taking notes. If not, don't worry. We'll have a transcript out there for you to look at. Thank you.

Selma Archer:

Yes, you talk a little bit about how important it is for CEOs to make cultures where employees feel comfortable coming forward and sharing their caregiving experiences, as well as for leaders themselves to share their experience, and and Jack and I have a great example of that. We did a a podcast with a large organization. Many people attended. We were in the chat room, and we actually were working directly with the individual was the COO at the time of the organization, who now is the CEO, but at the time he was caregiving for both of his parents, and he talked about that experience and the struggles that he had trying to manage his leadership role, along with caring for his parents, which of course was a priority for him. And at the end of this conversation, the chat room blew up so big we couldn't keep up with conversation. We couldn't keep up with questions. People just started coming for, and some senior leaders as well participated in the chat, and it was just amazing because previously we had done a conversation with a different organization, but we did not have a senior leader involved in the conversation, so it was drastic difference. So we've seen firsthand what you're saying. It it really is important for senior leaders to not only create the space but participate in the space as well.

Angela Williams:

And can I just interject and say that I think for all of us, it's it's the choices that we make, and it's an individual decision on how we manage work, caregiving, and everything else. And so, what may be good for me and my journey, right? They don't work for somebody else. And I think about a number of young people that are finding themselves in caregiving roles, the the young professionals that are in their 30s, 20s, 30s, 40s, and they're working. They have a parent or they spouse in addition to having small children, and I just think about the incredible pressures on them, and so we really, really do have to think about as a society: how do we care for each other, and how do we do it in a way that is not as. Owners are burdensome, as it can be for some families.

Selma Archer:

So, in your role as CEO, when you did make that decision to share your your experience with your board of directors or senior leaders and so forth, how did you approach that conversation initially with the people that surrounded you to show your vulnerability, you know that there was something going on in your life that was affecting your your ability, you know, to focus as a leader.

Angela Williams:

I think it starts with again, as I said, it's it's one of these things when you are in a caregiving role. It doesn't always happen like overnight. It's build up, and and and I think that as a leader, being able to share with your board and to share with your senior leadership team, and certainly my executive office knew always what was happening personally with me, and saying,"Hey, this is the experience I had recently. I think that's important. So it starts with being open about what you're experiencing, and then as it gets to a point where you you see, okay, I think I have to make a critical decision, and now's the time to do it, and just have the the conversation again. I think it's it's being conscientious because you're being conscientious of the organization, you're being conscientious of yourself, and then the person that you're or persons that you're caregiving for. So I think what we all need to do is have a mindset that recognizes that not every facet of your life is going to be at 100% and there are some things that you have to dial back, and other things that have to ratchet up, and I think it starts first with a self conversation conversation at home with your loved ones, and then reaching a conclusion like this is this is what I need to do, and to then go to the organization into leadership and explain yourself.

Selma Archer:

Well, that's great advice for someone listening who may be struggling silently with trying to balance their work life and their work responsibilities. So thank you for that.

Angela Williams:

For all of us, especially those of us that have been leaders for long periods of time. I remember the first public appearance that I had shortly after stepping down. It was at a on a panel at a caregiving conference or luncheon in New York City, and I was on the panel with a leading scientist in women's brain health, a state, a New York State senator, and some other folks. And I just sat there. I looked at the audience, and I said, "You know what? I'm going to just be honest. I am having an identity crisis right now. I have recently moved away from being CEO of a global organization into the role of being a caregiver, and I had to admit that my identity was tied closely to my role, my title, what I was doing, and I think that that is unhealthy. It's not uncommon, but it is unhealthy because who you are as an individual and your identity is reflective and should be self-reflective, because jobs and titles come and go on a whim, and you have no control. But who you are as a person and your values should never ever waver.

Selma Archer:

Wow! Wow, that's powerful. That's wonderful. Thank you for that. So, just shifting gears for a moment. If an HR leader is listening today to our conversation, because what Zach and I see a lot in our work is that we talk about support for caregivers. A lot of times, cost is the first thing that comes up as a pushback, people just you know they're frightened by the cost. They're overwhelmed by the cost. For people who are listening, that HR leader listening today to our conversation, what is they have a a very small budget, very limited resources. What do you think is one thing they could do tomorrow that would bring so much help to their caregiving workforce.

Angela Williams:

What HR professionals should know know and learn about are the resources that are available that they can point their employees to. So, for example, I think about the National Counseling on Aging, or the. Area agencies on aging that are across the United States are a fantastic resource. I think about Two and One, which is the National Health and Human Services Hotline, primarily run by United Ways, which have a partnership with AARP to provide caregiving resources to anybody that calls, texts, or emails, and there are other resources within counties and within cities that are fantastic. So, if nothing else, if there was a one pager that lists all the local resources, there are elder elder clinics, legal aid societies, all of those things. That would be a great first step.

Selma Archer:

Wow, I

Zack Demopoulos:

love it.

Selma Archer:

Yeah,

Zack Demopoulos:

love that. Love that. As Selma and I have had this conversation with folks about just taking an intranet page, right, and dedicate it solely to caregiving resources, and what we talked about earlier can save hours and and and help, you know, navigate them. But why don't we do it? You know, who's going to do it? Everybody is busy. Everybody's got you know a job. So, which kind of leads me to this next question I want to ask him, Ms. Williams. You know, we talked about how there's 63 million Americans that are caregivers in this country. It's the fastest growing segment of the workforce because over 70 percent of them are working. So this is an issue. Over the last 10 years, 45 percent increase in the number of caregivers in this country. That is is going to become a crisis. Do you feel the American workplaces are prepared for the growing caregiver demands that are being created by our aging population? The

Angela Williams:

short answer is no.

Zack Demopoulos:

Yeah.

Angela Williams:

No, and and so I think there's a lot we as a society need to think about. I am appreciative that we are living in a time where technology is advancing quickly, and thinking about how can we appropriate technology in the caregiving space is extremely important. And so, again, as I think about the role of HR professionals, what technology is available that you can provide as resources or share where technology is accessible for employees. I think that would be immensely helpful. Yeah. And then I think about how a lot of companies have childcare on site. Is it too radical to propose expanding those centers to beyond just childcare.

Zack Demopoulos:

It's not radical at all. At least we don't think so. But but it's it's it's it's a concept. You know, I think with being I was in HR, Selma in legal when we worked together, everyone thinks that we had all these benefits before, you know, childcare facilities on site, and we had family leave protection. Early 90s, late 80s, we didn't have any of that, and so hopefully now we're we're talking about them, having conversations like this with you, and and hoping hopefully we're raising awareness. But I think I'd love to get your opinion on this, I think though employers are underestimating the impact that that that we're having on things like retention and productivity and burnout. Maybe because technology isn't able to measure burnout as well, or even presenteeism. What what is your feeling on that? You know, as far as understanding the impact these have on on on the bottom line. If we want to talk about the bottom line,

Angela Williams:

one other thing. I'm going to go back to my comment about when employees show up, they bring their whole selves to the workplace. Companies have always had the what is it? Is it IEP the access to mental health support, and we EAP. Yeah, PAP. I'm sorry, thank you. We've heard so much over the last, I'd say, three to four years about mental health and mental health statistics and everything else, and I think that's another area where employers can really lean in, in terms of really encouraging employees to take advantage of employee assistance programs, to be able to even access grief counseling and other counseling, because I tell you, when you have that kind of support for your mental health. For your emotional stability, that also makes a difference for you in terms of how you show up and how how you manage throughout your day.

Zack Demopoulos:

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's that's that's that's an excellent point. You know, we're seeing more wellness. You know, and maybe grouping it together, and that's great. But we want to make sure we don't dilute the important piece here, that caregiving for children 18 and older, or for our spouses or siblings. You you mentioned it in the article that it it costs not just financially, but

Selma Archer:

yeah,

Zack Demopoulos:

spiritually, mentally, physically, emotionally. So, so maybe if we find more ways to measure that, I think looking at the mental mental health benefits, that's a great point. That's a good start.

Unknown:

Yeah,

Zack Demopoulos:

thank you.

Angela Williams:

I think that cuts down on absenteeism, and then also we want all of us when we go to work. We don't want we don't say I want to go to work today so I can do a half-ass job. You know, no, that's people want to give their best, especially in the job that they really enjoy. So, how do employers make way and room for an employee that is in a caregiving space to still be able to give their best and to operate in excellence.

Unknown:

Yeah,

Angela Williams:

and I and I would say too that and and I don't want to sound one sided because it's the employee's responsibility as well to figure out what they can do, what their limits are, and to have honest conversations with themselves to say, you know what? I don't think this current situation is is the best for me, and I I need to shift. So employees need to be able to have the courage to figure out if they can and if the door and opportunity is open to be able to shift.

Zack Demopoulos:

Thank you for saying that. And as we've said before, your story and how you handled it is going to help employees say more at workplace. So we appreciate you, really do,

Selma Archer:

guys. Miss Williams, you've had you've had so many extraordinary leadership positions throughout your career. Down the road, when you look back at your decision to step down and become a full-time caregiver. How do you think you view that decision?

Angela Williams:

Oh, I think it's the best decision I made. I will tell you, I have now taken on one of the hardest jobs I've ever had. Says the

Zack Demopoulos:

apprentice. Says the apprentice.

Angela Williams:

The apprentice. Oh my gosh! Yeah, it's something. But I'm grateful in that I go back to what my husband kept saying, Angela. You don't want to leave this world with any regrets. Yes, and I've had other friends say you only get one set of parents back, so being able to spend meaningful time with my mom now, I think it was the right decision, the best decision for me. And also, I'm still able to keep my fingers on the pulse of what's happening, and to be able to still use my voice and to be an advocate, but to do it on my terms and in ways that make sense for everything that else that I'm balancing. So I'm grateful I made this decision, and know that hey, I still have a lot to give, and and and intend to give

Zack Demopoulos:

it. Are are you going to title this chapter in your life, Mission Mom? Is that is that what I heard you call

Selma Archer:

it?

Angela Williams:

Yes, exactly. Yeah, Mission Mom. Yes. Well, one thing

Selma Archer:

as caregivers, one thing we've learned about having no regret is that it's very comforting in your time of grief when that person is is gone and you're in your grief stage. No regrets is a great place to be. Having no regrets it really does give you comfort. I was just wondering what does success look like to you at this point,

Angela Williams:

success is like managing support with the caregiver. Success is like, can I get through the Social Security administrator and the VA? Like success looks like you

Selma Archer:

know. It's funny because you're a lawyer, I'm a lawyer, and I had the same struggle with that. It's like who understands it?

Angela Williams:

It's ridiculous, and and so and success looks like being able to manage the caregiver schedule, and success is also like, did I nail this meal such that my mom, who was a chef and three square. Meals a day from scratch. She, when I give her her meals, like,"Oh, Angie, this is good. It's like, "Yes, yes, get it.

Selma Archer:

Finally,

Angela Williams:

yes. Or she'll say, "I was like, Mom, would you like this? No.

Selma Archer:

Well, just keep trying. So, one of the things that Zach and I do in our conversations with with caregivers, we encourage them to include their experience as caregivers on their resumes, because there are many skills that are associated with that. If you were preparing your resume to re-enter the workforce, what do you think would stand out as a as a strong skill for you that you've learned from being a caregiver so far?

Angela Williams:

I would say being organized, motivated, Research-oriented, analytical, passionate, and not giving up until I get to an answer, which is hopefully the best possible answer.

Selma Archer:

Yes, awesome. I

Zack Demopoulos:

love that. I love that. Yeah, Selma and I do encourage folks to do that because all the skills you just mentioned, who doesn't want them on their team, right? Sound like leadership skills to me.

Unknown:

Exactly.

Zack Demopoulos:

We'll like to wrap up here, Miss Williams. We want to wrap up. Can we do a little rapid fire with you? Rapid fire questions.

Selma Archer:

Yeah.

Zack Demopoulos:

All right. Here we go. Just got a one word or whatever comes to your mind. Here we go. All right, complete this sentence. When I stepped down, the reaction from my peers that surprised me the most was,

Angela Williams:

"Wow, you said one word, right?

Zack Demopoulos:

Oh, it is wow. Oh, I thought you were wowing the question. Yes, I bet your peers were probably kind of overwhelmed by it. Absolutely.

Selma Archer:

Yeah. If

Zack Demopoulos:

you could instantly fix one policy barrier for the 63 million caregivers that we've talked about in America, what would it be?

Angela Williams:

Time off.

Zack Demopoulos:

What? One workplace benefit you think every caregiver employee should have:

Angela Williams:

mental health counseling,

Zack Demopoulos:

an unsung community resource you think every family caregiver needs to know about.

Angela Williams:

211.

Zack Demopoulos:

Can you say a little bit more about 211 for the audience that is not familiar with that.

Angela Williams:

If you dial 211, it is the Health and Human Services hotline. You dial 911, that's the emergency. But if you have Health and Human Services, 211 is the answer. And as I mentioned, there is a partnership with AARP to provide resources to anyone that dials 211 or goes on 211 dot org seeking help and a list of resources near them,

Zack Demopoulos:

and we will put a link in our show notes about 211. I know it's not available for every state in the country, but pretty much most. So thank you for that's a great answer. We've not we've ever talked about 211 and we're on episode number 42. So thank you, Ms. Williams. That's pretty good. This one goes a little deep, but here we go. What worries me the most about the future of caregiving in America is

Angela Williams:

the needs are growing exponentially.

Zack Demopoulos:

Oh, thank you for saying that. What is your non-negotiable daily habit for safeguarding your own mental health?

Angela Williams:

Prayer and reading my Bible in the mornings.

Zack Demopoulos:

And the last one is, if you could tell Angela from five years ago just one thing about the future, what would it

Angela Williams:

be? Be prepared for the unexpected.

Zack Demopoulos:

Thank you.

Selma Archer:

One last closing question: If every employer, CEO, HR leader listening today, what is the one message you would want them to walk away with.

Angela Williams:

Be there for your employees, because you never know what the undercurrent is that's going on in their lives, and create the space and the culture that allows individuals to share either one-on-one or collectively as a group to provide support to each other.

Selma Archer:

Wonderful!

Unknown:

Wow! Thank you. It's

Zack Demopoulos:

great. Thank you so much. Can you? Can you? Are you allowed to tell us a little bit about this book you're writing? I understand you're writing a book.

Angela Williams:

Ah, yes. The book is actually done. It came out in October. Called navigating the age of chaos, and my co-authors Jamaica Cassio and Bob Johansen. In this book, we talk about we living we live in a what we call a bonnie world, meaning the world that is brittle, a anxious, in nonlinear, and I incomprehensible, and that goes for the world in which we live. That includes systems, but it also includes our individual lives. And we provide a framework for how do you get through living in a Bonnie world. Wow,

Zack Demopoulos:

that's awesome! Awesome. Well, we'll put a link in in our sonas about your book as well. As we always say, we can't think enough that we're not necessarily encouraging all CEOs to step down when caregiving comes comes upon them, but at least to have more conversations like you're having with us and with many others is invaluable. Thank you so much for what you're doing and for spending time with us to share with our audience.

Angela Williams:

Well, I it was my pleasure. I enjoyed it, and thank you.

Unknown:

Thank you for tuning in. Be sure to catch new episodes of Working Caregivers, the Invisible Employees podcast, every other Tuesday. Please also visit our website, InvisibleEmployeeAdvocates.com, to subscribe to our newsletter, purchase our book, and learn more about how we can help you strengthen your workplace to become more supportive of working caregivers.